Curse

kranius · Apr 10, 2008, 07:33 AM // 07:33

Yesterday we had a debate with guildies about using a +7 armor against physical or elemental vs +30 health. This is only about midline casters.

I think, +7 is better, considering you are using shield with +10 mod. It gives you 7+8+10, thus 60AL become 85AL.

What do you guys think ?

Lord Bleyz · Apr 10, 2008, 07:37 AM // 07:37

I agree, but over all it depends on the build.

kranius · Apr 10, 2008, 07:58 AM // 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Bleyz

it depends on the build.

no it doesn't

Well, i may be wiser to run +7, and when you are starting to have DP, switching on +30. Or maybe run +30 for extra health that can save your butt from a spike, then switch on +7 when DPed for armor buff that can balance it.

I'm quite confused now

JR · Apr 10, 2008, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Health is generally always better.

If you are playing against something like pure elemental caster spike then switching to a +7 vs elemental damage mod would be worth while.

+7 vs Physical isn't great, because Warriors have elemental weapons too, and it's rare to see a pure physical damage build.

The only one that is worth comparing to +30hp for general use is +5AL vs everything. Even then it just isn't worth it.

Ghostcell · Apr 10, 2008, 10:14 AM // 10:14

+30, same reasons JR mentioned

Ec]-[oMaN · Apr 10, 2008, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Considering 99% of GW is using L orb and spiking armor means piss. Thus +25 becomes +5.

la_cabra_de_vida · Apr 10, 2008, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Stay with the health mod.

Orange Milk · Apr 10, 2008, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Depends on the arena too. But +30 is the easiest way to go.

besides That +7 vs Physicall won't do anything against A Rage when they spike with that too. So +5 vs all IS the only comparison as it is the only catch all like +30, but it's a lesser form of catch all because

+30 is better against any form of degen be it Hex or Condition.

Still you can carry both and weapon swap till your hearts content.

Ekelon · Apr 10, 2008, 05:56 PM // 17:56

I would say +5 armor is better than +7's, because it's universal armor. What I usually do is have 2 shield sets, the first one is +5 armor/10% HSR and the other one is +30 health. This way you can first get bonus armor while you take pressure/pressure spikes, but if you get suddenly spiked to <50% health switch straight to the +30 health just in case.

Killed u man · Apr 10, 2008, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekelon

I would say +5 armor is better than +7's, because it's universal armor. What I usually do is have 2 shield sets, the first one is +5 armor/10% HSR and the other one is +30 health. This way you can first get bonus armor while you take pressure/pressure spikes, but if you get suddenly spiked to <50% health switch straight to the +30 health just in case.

What he said... Armor +5 reduces +-25-30 Damage on a full HP bar, meaning your monks will gave to heal for 25-30 less every 500-600 damage U take.
It's not much, but in GvG all bits and pieces help...

It's, in theory, ALWAYS better to have higher armor unless you face an armor ignoring spike. But NOT bringing a Armor+5 Spear is kinda dumb anyways, because gues what: You can store it in your inventory and WHEN the occasion comes U don't need it, switch it for the HP+30 one.. (OMGZOOOR)

Obviously, I doubt if games EVER were won due to 5Armor, but than again, the day you get spiked with a Armor+5 spear on, you have 1HP left and then switch to high-hp set (31HP) and get hit for another 30 damage, THEN you'll learn to appreciate the Armor +5 mod

Imo, everyone should atleast bring it, It's not going to kill you, is it?

romO · Apr 10, 2008, 10:52 PM // 22:52

+5 armor will make you take less damage.
+30 health will make you die less.

This is especially true considering the benefits of +health mods against Deep Wound (which is capped at 100 health).

In a perfect world, if you could use +5 armor when getting auto-attacked and always know when you're getting spiked, at which point you could swap to +30 health, that would probably be the best. Practically, it's not going to happen, so +health is generally your safest bet.

TheHaxor · Apr 10, 2008, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Pretty much what tommy and JR said.

The health increases in value as you gain DP. The +armor will have no effect on armor ignoring sources of damage, where as the +health will have an effect. Plus, cracked armor is going to make the +armor (85 compared to 65) less effective, where the +health gets more effective as your armor decreases (higher health to make up for lack of armor).

Diddy bow · Apr 10, 2008, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Switching would technicly be a bit better but not so much to be worth doing, stick with +30, or just a +5 if your sure your in no danger of a spike and swap when low

.

TheHaxor · Apr 11, 2008, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diddy bow

Switching would technicly be a bit better but not so much to be worth doing, stick with +30, or just a +5 if your sure your in no danger of a spike and swap when low

.

it would be worth doing if you could see the future to find out when you are going to get spiked

Sun Fired Blank · Apr 11, 2008, 12:23 AM // 00:23

In PvE, AB, TA and HB, I use defense mods. In HA and GvG, I use health mods.

Ensign · Apr 11, 2008, 01:16 AM // 01:16

I would consider +armor over +health on my shield set *only* if I never left my shield set. Health on your shield set is a defensive bonus that you get regardless of whether or not you were on that set when the damage came in.

If you only use one weapon set ever and never switch consider armor mods in formats where DP doesn't matter, ala arenas or HA.

Divinus Stella · Apr 11, 2008, 01:21 AM // 01:21

I only ever use 7vs physical when ganking and 7vs elemental against pure elemental spikes, the rest of the time against a mixed spike il have health in my shieldset, i would use a +5 armour mod more often if weapon sets werent restricted to 4 but HP tends to be what you want on your panic button.

I dont think you should be using either all the time, staying in pure casting sets until your getting spiked is best i think.

urania · Apr 11, 2008, 06:00 AM // 06:00

I use +7 weapons on a regular basis, but only in combination with a shield (so for full benefits you need shields vs all damage and two +7 weaps, obviously) and when there's no armor ignoring damage around (but i often use it even then :P). It IS nice, no matter what some ppl here may say and it can prevent deaths too. I'm speaking from a TA perspective here though, where most of the damage either comes alone from physicals of alone from casters. But it does make quite a difference nevertheless.

On my normal energy set (47 energy) i use a +30 weapon though.

Sun Fired Blank · Apr 11, 2008, 08:57 AM // 08:57

As a more expanded explanation, here's what I use (and it's probably not very good).

AB: I use a Martial Weapon of Defense. Your shield honestly doesn't matter for this format; you can't bother to swap for every shit build you encounter, but if you cared enough, I'd use: Slashing (vs. "tanks"), Piercing (vs. SP sins), and / or Fire (vs. nukers).

HB: I use a Martial Weapon of Defense. My primary Shield Swap changes for the frontliner, but for the most part, you'll probably camp your Piercing set (vs. Packhunters, Turret Warriors, SP sins), because nothing else likely helps you that much.

TA: I used to have armor and shield swaps for condition heavy setups that could push daze beyond the removal of Mending Touch, but I honestly don't need those anymore due to Foul Feast. I swap a Martial Weapon of Warding versus the occasional ele and conjure frontliner setups, a Martial Weapon of Fortitude for sadly limited use versus the rare shovespike, and a Martial Weapon of Defense for strangely mixed teams. My primary Shield Swaps are: Slashing (vs. Axe, Cripslash, Wounding Strike), Blunt (vs. Magehunter's), Lightning (vs. Ride the Lightning). You could take other swaps but you don't need them. If you honestly need your Earth (vs. Shockwave), Piercing (vs. R. Spike), and Fire (vs. Searway / Mind Blast) swaps, you're probably not very good, and swaps aren't likely to help you.

Versus mixed setups: in my opinion, you should use your slashing set versus HC-smite and Hammer plus Axe / Sword teams. Versus dual non-identical conjures for a Cripslash / Shock Axe HC-Smite frontline, I would use a shield for the Cripslash's Conjure.

I probably shouldn't have mentioned this, people in TA know me well enough that their frontliners will probably just beat me to death on their elemental set. No more 93 armor versus axes.

HA: I use a Martial Weapon of Defense versus Sway, but I use a Martial Weapon of Fortitude versus everything else. My primary Shield Swaps are: Slashing (vs. Scythe Rangers, Axe and Cripslash frontliners), Piercing (vs. pure R. Spike or A/D fronted R. Spike), Fire (vs. Searway), Cold (vs. IV spike). My secondary Shield Swaps are: Blunt (vs. thumpers and Magehunter frontliners), Lightning (vs. Invoke Spike), and Earth (vs. Shockwave Spike).

GvG: I use a Martial Weapon of Fortitude. My primary Shield Swaps are: Slashing (vs. Scythes, Axe and Cripslash frontliners), Blunt (vs. Magehunter frontliners and thumpers), Fire (vs. heavy Mind Blast / Searing Flames). My secondary Shield Swaps are: Earth (vs. Shockwave Spike), Lightning (vs. Invoke Spike). I have a Shield and Armor swaps for Burning Isle.

My default setup for Mo/W ZB TA monk (but roughly applies to any caster):

- Base Energy Set: Martial Weapon of Shelter ("I have the power!"), Shield of Fortitude ("The Riddle of Steel")
- Efficiency Set: Adept Staff of Enchanting ("Aptitude not Attitude")
- Low Energy Set: Martial Weapon of Shelter ("Brawn over Brains"), Shield of Fortitude ("The Riddle of Steel")
- High Energy Set: Wand of Memory ("Seize the Day"), Focus of Aptitude ("Live For Today")

If you're not a monk, it's likely that you don't require a low energy set or a high energy set. In TA, when I play midline, I usually have a second efficiency set in place of the high energy set.

Karla, do you use a Sword / Focus as your base set? If so, could you post your weapon swaps?

lordelg · Apr 11, 2008, 12:54 PM // 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Fired Blank

As a more expanded explanation, here's what I use (and it's probably not very good).

AB: I use a Martial Weapon of Defense. Your shield honestly doesn't matter for this format; you can't bother to swap for every shit build you encounter, but if you cared enough, I'd use: Slashing (vs. "tanks"), Piercing (vs. SP sins), and / or Fire (vs. nukers).

HB: I use a Martial Weapon of Defense. My primary Shield Swap changes for the frontliner, but for the most part, you'll probably camp your Piercing set (vs. Packhunters, Turret Warriors, SP sins), because nothing else likely helps you that much.

TA: I used to have armor and shield swaps for condition heavy setups that could push daze beyond the removal of Mending Touch, but I honestly don't need those anymore due to Foul Feast. I swap a Martial Weapon of Warding versus the occasional ele and conjure frontliner setups, a Martial Weapon of Fortitude for sadly limited use versus the rare shovespike, and a Martial Weapon of Defense for strangely mixed teams. My primary Shield Swaps are: Slashing (vs. Axe, Cripslash, Wounding Strike), Blunt (vs. Magehunter's), Lightning (vs. Ride the Lightning). You could take other swaps but you don't need them. If you honestly need your Earth (vs. Shockwave), Piercing (vs. R. Spike), and Fire (vs. Searway / Mind Blast) swaps, you're probably not very good, and swaps aren't likely to help you.

Versus mixed setups: in my opinion, you should use your slashing set versus HC-smite and Hammer plus Axe / Sword teams. Versus dual non-identical conjures for a Cripslash / Shock Axe HC-Smite frontline, I would use a shield for the Cripslash's Conjure.

I probably shouldn't have mentioned this, people in TA know me well enough that their frontliners will probably just beat me to death on their elemental set. No more 93 armor versus axes.

HA: I use a Martial Weapon of Defense versus Sway, but I use a Martial Weapon of Fortitude versus everything else. My primary Shield Swaps are: Slashing (vs. Scythe Rangers, Axe and Cripslash frontliners), Piercing (vs. pure R. Spike or A/D fronted R. Spike), Fire (vs. Searway), Cold (vs. IV spike). My secondary Shield Swaps are: Blunt (vs. thumpers and Magehunter frontliners), Lightning (vs. Invoke Spike), and Earth (vs. Shockwave Spike).

GvG: I use a Martial Weapon of Fortitude. My primary Shield Swaps are: Slashing (vs. Scythes, Axe and Cripslash frontliners), Blunt (vs. Magehunter frontliners and thumpers), Fire (vs. heavy Mind Blast / Searing Flames). My secondary Shield Swaps are: Earth (vs. Shockwave Spike), Lightning (vs. Invoke Spike). I have a Shield and Armor swaps for Burning Isle.

My default setup for Mo/W ZB TA monk (but roughly applies to any caster):

- Base Energy Set: Martial Weapon of Shelter ("I have the power!"), Shield of Fortitude ("The Riddle of Steel")
- Efficiency Set: Adept Staff of Enchanting ("Aptitude not Attitude")
- Low Energy Set: Martial Weapon of Shelter ("Brawn over Brains"), Shield of Fortitude ("The Riddle of Steel")
- High Energy Set: Wand of Memory ("Seize the Day"), Focus of Aptitude ("Live For Today")

If you're not a monk, it's likely that you don't require a low energy set or a high energy set. In TA, when I play midline, I usually have a second efficiency set in place of the high energy set.

Karla, do you use a Sword / Focus as your base set? If so, could you post your weapon swaps?

you pritty much gimp yourself there dont ya